XDL the no bullshit thread
#1
Ok, that other thread turned into a bunch of people arguing about points they'll never agree about. I'm not claiming that I'm the expert at all things competition stuntriding. But I've won here in the US, helped write the rules here, took 2nd last year in Europe, helped judge there twice, and I'm leaving to judge a contest in Morocco in just over a week as apparently even the Europeans think myself and XDL are doing something right. That said, I think I have a good idea about what I'm talking about.

So you wonder why what you want to see is not winning, buckle up it's going to be a long read.

Before we talk about today's rules and what the end goal of them are lets talk about the sport as a sport and why we're doing what we're doing today.

Freestyle riding in the US was very exciting for a while because nobody knew what they were doing. It was fast, it was dangerous, and people ate shit, often. Then the technical side set in, it was new, the riders and spectators had never seen slow wheelies, the idea of slowing down a wheelie was confusing. For a while it was fun. I had been around these evolutions as a camera guy. It was always exciting because it was always new. Then the technical circles took hold, coincidentally our spectator numbers started to dwindle. Perhaps stuntriding simply was no longer a new thing, perhaps it was the nature of sport started to draw long on our fans attention span. That's NOT saying we're creating contests for spectators over sport.

I started to ride and compete during this time of reasonable but not expanding spectator numbers regardless to an ever expanding rider base. More of us, stagnant or dwindling spectator numbers. XDL came about and the principle is as great today as it was then. A real series, that grows the sport and adds legitimacy to riders.

The basic principle of the XDL system has been around forever and still is today. We've tweaked specific parts of that system to adapt for change. Initially, diversifying the runs and tricks was needed. But proving the best overall rider in the given time was always goal. After the first couple years emphasis on technical difficulty took hold to boost that side of the sport. And today I feel we have the best system to date. One that can reward those that are tech riders and those who're riding at or above 10/10ths. And in time, the riders will evolve and we'll be awarding men who ride like men at the highest technical level.

Let's talk tech and XDL. Hell lets talk first place qualifying or round winners of XDL 2012. Rafal, Bill D, Luke, Ernie, Julien, and Teach all held a first place run this year in qualifying or a championship round. Those styles of riding are drastically different. In fact reviewing those winners alone and thinking about it being a working system answers the question undoubtedly yes. Why? I'll answer in a bit.

The problem that a lot of people are having by review of the arguments is centered around wheelies. A portion of what makes an XDL run. But neglecting the other principles is the wrong way of looking at it. The total performance encompassing the 4 principles all has merit.

How we do it, I can easily see why it's confusing especially about the runs sited. Without you being at these bigger venues it's hard to see what we all did. And the most simple honest answer why, seeing the videos make the runs look like crap. YouTube looses all impact that's not dissecting the technical side. But in person when you see a rider pitch the bike at full lock at 50+mph it has a lot of weight behind it. Riding like that in an overall standpoint and one of difficulty ranks high. Unless you'd like to continue to tell someone like myself who thinks it's hard, that it's not. Why is it hard, less than the big balls factor and scoring with difficulty and overall? Placement, transition to the next trick, and the simple fact that's not an easy thing to do. Same things with endos. If you're watching a rider doing a small 180 or 270 VS one doing a big 270 plus, there's a huge difference in how that's scored. Riding like that separates the men from the boys in the burnouts and endos. So did Aaron Colton coming 3rd gear max speed and missing the wall by 3ft on a 200ft sweeper.


Back to the why these current XDL rules are working. Well, as I said we had multiple styles and tech levels take the first position this year. Some did it through basic technical skills, and some through riding like a madman.

People saying riders are putting on "show" runs and winning, that's incorrect. They're putting on burnout and endo heavy runs with moderate wheelies and mediocre acro. And those same riders are also losing to technical riders with heavy wheelies and solid acros with moderate burnouts/endos throughout the year. Also, funny off topic, I've been doing HC figure 8's in my runs from 08, that's 4 years it's been a comp trick, shits not new. But still hard and I hope to use it as a part of my runs in 13 when I'm healthy in my hunt for another win.

So what does this all mean? That means that our technical riders can start developing a heavy charging style and our heavy chargers can develop more tech. If either one of the two category rider turns up the wick they'll be consistently winning. And by principle this should promote the sport, push it, and create exceptionally skilled riders over the years to come. When a rider makes the spectator and fellow riders butt pucker and at the same time has a ton of technical skill, we're doing it right.

Most important thing a sanctioning body can do is create rules to elevate the total rider skill set. Be ready to adapt with the changing styles as they develop.

One last note, I traveled this year a ton, judged a lot, have more close international friends that ever and know this; any of the things that don't impress you on YouTube, your favorite rider just told me is amazing and going to change the game. You may just be one degree of separation away from seeing it, and there's nothing wrong with that. I guess you'll just have to trust us or get involved to help. We all quit our jobs at some point, we all invested everything and went broke along the way. We were all just like you. And we're all waiting for new blood to come and change the game again.
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#2
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#3
well said nick
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#4
That was well explained man!
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#5
I cried a single tear at the end
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#6
Only thing I have ot say is this. I Could care less about judging.

I’m not trying to make waves by stating this but unlike almost every other motorcycle based sport. There is no amateur class therefore there is no real room for and up and coming rider. I have seen allot of riders through the years who could be recognized if they had more experience riding in comps. There was AFS for a wile but that’s gone. To all the “PRO Riders” answer this. You say that you are doing good for the sport and promoting the sport to grow right? But you do realize just like every other pro rider in other motorcycle based sports you WONT be around for ever.. When you are gone if XDL is the way it is now then what happens? A true pioneer should pave the way for the sports future riders. After all the riders are the ones who make this sport exist. I don’t see any of that going on. Looks to me like it has become an every man for his self deal.
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#7
Well put Nick . While I'm in no position to give a credible argument I believe that a rider should only be proficient in three categories to gain max points. I don't feel like doing a long winded explanation but after attending a few xdl comps in the end it always seems like a bunch of guys who are trying to do the same tricks in their quest for max points . Yes I can tell the difference in the runs but to the average person it looks like everybody doing the same thing.
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#8
Quote:

Originally Posted by hypermike-gba
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Only thing I have ot say is this. I Could care less about judging.

I�m not trying to make waves by stating this but unlike almost every other motorcycle based sport. There is no amateur class therefore there is no real room for and up and coming rider. I have seen allot of riders through the years who could be recognized if they had more experience riding in comps. There was AFS for a wile but that�s gone. To all the �PRO Riders� answer this. You say that you are doing good for the sport and promoting the sport to grow right? But you do realize just like every other pro rider in other motorcycle based sports you WONT be around for ever.. When you are gone if XDL is the way it is now then what happens? A true pioneer should pave the way for the sports future riders. After all the riders are the ones who make this sport exist. I don�t see any of that going on. Looks to me like it has become an every man for his self deal.

That's exactly what I posted in the other thread and every single person Ignored me!
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#9
Quote:

Originally Posted by hypermike-gba
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Only thing I have ot say is this. I Could care less about judging.

I�m not trying to make waves by stating this but unlike almost every other motorcycle based sport. There is no amateur class therefore there is no real room for and up and coming rider. I have seen allot of riders through the years who could be recognized if they had more experience riding in comps. There was AFS for a wile but that�s gone. To all the �PRO Riders� answer this. You say that you are doing good for the sport and promoting the sport to grow right? But you do realize just like every other pro rider in other motorcycle based sports you WONT be around for ever.. When you are gone if XDL is the way it is now then what happens? A true pioneer should pave the way for the sports future riders. After all the riders are the ones who make this sport exist. I don�t see any of that going on. Looks to me like it has become an every man for his self deal.

sad to say you are mistaken, try and come to an event next year. one thing ernie and i have said all year is why are we placing at the top? sure, we are progressing in our own way but we are looking for the young blood to come knock us off and create new styles, etc...that's the major US weakness imo, the Euros seem to have a lot more younger riders with their own flavor.

I also bust colton's balls about not winning constantly as we need a younger guard to take the helm and steer the ship. personally, i'm near the end of the my willingness to sacrifice and put work in...i and others helped build things to where they are and now it's time to pass the torch....but to who? the answer is to whomever will accept that responsibility and all that goes with it, at it's not easy by any means.

i'll give you two examples to refute your feelings:
1. kyle sliger: killer rider, first real year. as veteran riders, we welcomed him into the fold, offered showers at hotel rooms, always tried to make him part of the family, etc. Encouragement in his riding as well as his ability to make the next event were always given. with a few changes and improvements, he can be a top 5 guy all day.

2. nick karipis: my northeast dude. rode with him in the spring, said you should do xdl. after first round he committed to come all the way to long beach ON HIS OWN by himself in his truck. needless to say we all took care of him in every aspect possible. at indy he got 'hosed' in a miscommunication on wheelie race rules and us veteran riders went to bat for him vs the judges in the middle of the contest bc we felt he was wronged and the $1000 he lost out on might have cost him a trip to the next event. nick soldiered on and made every event.

both these guys are exactly what the sport needs and exactly what us veteran riders want. we want new blood, hence the constant encouragement and support of younger riders along with the attempt to make as many events possible and 'open ride' situation.

the reason you don't see it is because you are not there. we are a family at xdl and every rider is welcome. come humble, ready to learn, and willingness to improve and you will be welcomed and nurtured, just like colton was at 13. both these guys can attest to the camaraderie that we all have. and that's part of the reason we all sometimes get defensive, bc we invest everything we have into this...some more easily than others. when i see nick karipis willing to quit his job and drive 50 hours alone to make a comp, i wanna help him bc i remember when that was me...thats the thing, everyone in a positive situation in xdl remembers the beginnings and the struggles, and while that is a necessary part of growing up as a person and a rider, we all want to ensure that the up and comers continue to keep showing up...we NEED more blood.





nick, one of my favorite things about you is that you are actually intelligent and well spoken...such a difficult thing to find in stunt riding it seems. well said!
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#10
Quote:

Originally Posted by hypermike-gba
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Only thing I have ot say is this. I Could care less about judging.

I�m not trying to make waves by stating this but unlike almost every other motorcycle based sport. There is no amateur class therefore there is no real room for and up and coming rider. I have seen allot of riders through the years who could be recognized if they had more experience riding in comps. There was AFS for a wile but that�s gone. To all the �PRO Riders� answer this. You say that you are doing good for the sport and promoting the sport to grow right? But you do realize just like every other pro rider in other motorcycle based sports you WONT be around for ever.. When you are gone if XDL is the way it is now then what happens? A true pioneer should pave the way for the sports future riders. After all the riders are the ones who make this sport exist. I don�t see any of that going on. Looks to me like it has become an every man for his self deal.

Thought every man for himself was the basis of any individual competition...? So what in XDL doesn't allow for a new rider to compete? You qualify, you compete. There are some guys who haven't been around forever that are fairly new to the comp that are killing it. And Nick even just said exactly what you are asking about, they are trying to push for more rounded riders and waiting for some new kids to come along and bring something new to it as well.
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